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ID-FRONTIERS for April 6-12, 2008
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Messages are displayed in the order they were received.
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| Subject | From | Date | Time |
| two pipits from north india | Abhijit Menon-Sen | Sun, 6 Apr 2008 | 9:50am |
| Re: two pipits from north india | Peter Adriaens | Sun, 6 Apr 2008 | 10:50am |
| Possible Bachman's Sparrow in IL | =?US-ASCII?Q?Greg_Ne | Sun, 6 Apr 2008 | 6:56pm |
| And yet another odd gull, Reno, NV | Martin Meyers | Mon, 7 Apr 2008 | 7:56pm |
| Re: And yet another odd gull, Reno, NV | greatgrayowl(AT)AOL.COM | Tue, 8 Apr 2008 | 7:29am |
| Re: Possible Bachman's Sparrow in IL | Mike Kirch | Tue, 8 Apr 2008 | 9:46am |
| Re: And yet another odd gull, Reno, NV | Floyd Hayes | Tue, 8 Apr 2008 | 9:58am |
| Re: And yet another odd gull, Reno, NV | Cliff and Lisa Weiss | Tue, 8 Apr 2008 | 11:14am |
| Re: And yet another odd gull, Reno, NV | =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Greg_ | Tue, 8 Apr 2008 | 12:05pm |
| Re: And yet another odd gull, Reno, NV | greatgrayowl(AT)AOL.COM | Tue, 8 Apr 2008 | 1:46pm |
| La Sagra's Flycatcher | Trey Mitchell | Tue, 8 Apr 2008 | 3:43pm |
| RFI: fulmar molts and ageing | Mike Patterson | Tue, 8 Apr 2008 | 4:10pm |
| A curious oriole in Connecticut | Mark Szantyr | Tue, 8 Apr 2008 | 9:56pm |
| Re: And yet another odd gull, Reno, NV | Floyd Hayes | Wed, 9 Apr 2008 | 10:21am |
| IBWO cruising flight | Mike Collins | Wed, 9 Apr 2008 | 10:27am |
| Re: IBWO cruising flight | Dominic Mitchell | Wed, 9 Apr 2008 | 11:09am |
| Re: RFI: fulmar molts and ageing | Peter Pyle | Wed, 9 Apr 2008 | 11:44am |
| Re: IBWO cruising flight | Mike Collins | Wed, 9 Apr 2008 | 11:51am |
| DNA confirmation of bird record? | Allen T. Chartier | Wed, 9 Apr 2008 | 11:54am |
| Re: DNA confirmation of bird record? | Phil Davis | Wed, 9 Apr 2008 | 12:23pm |
| Re: And yet another odd gull, Reno, NV | Kevin McGowan | Wed, 9 Apr 2008 | 12:27pm |
| Collins' IBWO claimed image | David Fix Jude Power | Wed, 9 Apr 2008 | 3:06pm |
| Re: And yet another odd gull, Reno, NV | Christopher Vogel | Wed, 9 Apr 2008 | 9:06pm |
| Re: IBWO cruising flight | Dominic Mitchell | Thu, 10 Apr 2008 | 3:58am |
| Re: And yet another odd gull, Reno, NV | Kevin McGowan | Thu, 10 Apr 2008 | 6:24am |
| Re: IBWO cruising flight | Mike Collins | Thu, 10 Apr 2008 | 6:55am |
| Re: And yet another odd gull, Reno, NV | Joseph Morlan | Thu, 10 Apr 2008 | 10:19am |
| Re: IBWO cruising flight | Mike Patterson | Thu, 10 Apr 2008 | 11:03am |
| A Brain Twister | =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Greg_ | Thu, 10 Apr 2008 | 12:59pm |
| Re: And yet another odd gull, Reno, NV | Alvaro Jaramillo | Thu, 10 Apr 2008 | 9:18pm |
| Re: And yet another odd gull, Reno, NV | Paul Conover | Thu, 10 Apr 2008 | 9:53pm |
| Oaxaca trip photos posted. | Jerry Oldenettel | Fri, 11 Apr 2008 | 4:42am |
|
To use email addresses replace '(AT)' with '@'.
This is done to confuse the spam 'bots.
|
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Subject: two pipits from north india
From: Abhijit Menon-Sen <ams(AT)TOROID.ORG>
Date: 6 Apr 2008 9:50am
(Sorry, not another Gull. :-)
These two photographs were taken by Sharad Sridhar in Sultanpur,
Haryana, in North India (and posted to the delhibirdpix mailing
list, archived on Google Groups):
http://toroid.org/misc/sharad-pipit-a.jpeg (12 April 2007)
http://toroid.org/misc/sharad-pipit-b.jpeg (15 March 2008)
Are they Long-Billed Pipits (Anthus similis)?
I've seen several Long-Billed at Sultanpur which look exactly like the
illustrations in the field guides, but these (despite having very long
bills) are paler underneath and look longer-legged than anything I've
seen. Also note that the second bird (b.jpeg) shows a distinct dark
moustachial streak under the eye, a feature I understand similis does
not usually show.
-- ams
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Subject: Re: two pipits from north india
From: Peter Adriaens <p_adriaens(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 6 Apr 2008 10:50am
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Hello,
the first bird ("pipit a") is a Richard's Pipit (Anthus richardi); note, for
instance, the pale lore, heavy bill, very upright stance, obvious dark,
triangular marks on the median coverts, dark 'brow' above the supericilium, etc.
The second bird may be less straightforward as its upperparts cannot be clearly
seen and as it holds its bill slightly open, making it difficult to judge its
shape. However, it looks like a Paddyfield Pipit (Anthus rufulus); the thin dark
loral stripe is typical, and is very rarely seen in side-views of Richard's
Pipit. Also, the dark marks on the median coverts seem less extensive than in
Richard's, and the dark upper border to the supericilum is missing.
Long-billed Pipit is quite a different bird, showing darker underparts, darker
lores, shorter legs, a longer, duller bill, less streaking on the crown and
upperparts, paler median coverts, and a plainer head.
Kind regards,
Peter
----- Original Message ----
From: Abhijit Menon-Sen <ams(AT)TOROID.ORG>
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Sent: Sunday, April 6, 2008 6:50:32 PM
Subject: [BIRDWG01] two pipits from north india
(Sorry, not another Gull. :-)
These two photographs were taken by Sharad Sridhar in Sultanpur,
Haryana, in North India (and posted to the delhibirdpix mailing
list, archived on Google Groups):
http://toroid.org/misc/sharad-pipit-a.jpeg (12 April 2007)
http://toroid.org/misc/sharad-pipit-b.jpeg (15 March 2008)
Are they Long-Billed Pipits (Anthus similis)?
I've seen several Long-Billed at Sultanpur which look exactly like the
illustrations in the field guides, but these (despite having very long
bills) are paler underneath and look longer-legged than anything I've
seen. Also note that the second bird (b.jpeg) shows a distinct dark
moustachial streak under the eye, a feature I understand similis does
not usually show.
-- ams
Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
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____________________________________________________________________________________
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Subject: Possible Bachman's Sparrow in IL
From: =?US-ASCII?Q?Greg_Neise?= <greg(AT)LPZOO.ORG>
Date: 6 Apr 2008 6:56pm
Hi Gang,
Bill Rudden has once again posted an interesting photo on the
Illinois
Birder's
Forum:
http://www.ilbirds.com/index.php?topic=4493.0
Any
feedback most welcome.
Cheers,
-greg neise
Berwyn, IL
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Subject: And yet another odd gull, Reno, NV
From: Martin Meyers <meyersm(AT)mindspring.com>
Date: 7 Apr 2008 7:56pm
Just in case there haven't been enough gulls on ID-Frontiers lately, here's one
to play with. ; - )
This gull was present at Virginia Lake, Reno, NV for a few days at the end of
March and beginning of April. I've gotten a few intriguing opinions and thought
it might be useful to throw it open to this august panel. (I've even been
accused, tongue-in-cheek, of some highly creative Photoshopping. I assure you,
I'm not that good.)
Rather than providing written details, I'll just point you to a web page with a
number of photos of the bird.
This gull has its web page at:
http://birdbum3.home.mindspring.com/Mystery_Gull_4-08/Mystery_Gull_4-08.html
Martin
p.s. On a different topic (er, I mean, on a different gull), the large dark
gull that spent the winter at this same lake in Reno, which I posted to this
list a couple of months ago, remained off and on through last week. It is still
unidentified. While that post did not prompt responses to the listserv, I did
receive quite a few very interesting replies directly. There was no consensus,
but most felt that it was, at least, a Lesser Black-backed Gull by today's AOU
definition. However, there were a number of "votes" for one of the Siberian
races (heuglini, taimyrensis), which, of course, are considered to be something
other than Larus fuscus by many. It molted tail feathers (R-4) during the last
week it was present. The bird appears to be gone now, and, unfortunately I was
never able to obtain anything for genetic testing. Perhaps it will return next
winter. I've recently posted additional photos at the end of that bird's web
page, so if you have a lingering interest in this gull,you can see all of the
photos at:
http://birdbum3.home.mindspring.com/Dark_Gull_08/Dark_Gull_08.html
p.p.s. Either of the two pages (the new oddball gull or the old dark gull) can
also be reached from the "Recent" tab of my regular web page, address in
signature.
*****************************************************
* Martin Meyers
* Photo website: http://meyersm.home.mindspring.com
* email: meyersm AT mindspring.com
* Truckee, CA
*****************************************************
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Subject: Re: And yet another odd gull, Reno, NV
From: greatgrayowl(AT)AOL.COM
Date: 8 Apr 2008 7:29am
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Hi all:
?
It seems to me that there is Ring-billed in that gull (head shape, bill pattern,
size), but it's obviously not a Ring-billed Gull!? The dark eye, blue bill and
legs, darker mantle, extensive black in wingtip, and extensive size of the P10
mirror all point (in my mind) to some California Gull gene infusion.? Perhaps
the battle between 3-yr gull genes and 4-yr gull genes has produced the blue
bill and legs (something fairly typical of some ages of Cal Gull).
?
What a CRAZY bird!
?
Tony Leukering
Brighton, CO
?
-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Meyers <meyersm(AT)MINDSPRING.COM>
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Sent: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 10:56 pm
Subject: [BIRDWG01] And yet another odd gull, Reno, NV
Just in case there haven't been enough gulls on ID-Frontiers lately, here's one
to play with. ; - ) This gull was present at Virginia Lake, Reno, NV for a
few days at the end of March and beginning of April. I've gotten a few
intriguing opinions and thought it might be useful to throw it open to this
august panel. (I've even been accused, tongue-in-cheek, of some highly
creative Photoshopping. I assure you, I'm not that good.) Rather than
providing written details, I'll just point you to a web page with a number of
photos of the bird. This gull has its web page at:
http://birdbum3.home.mindspring.com/Mystery_Gull_4-08/Mystery_Gull_4-08.html
Martin p.s. On a different topic (er, I mean, on a different gull), the
large dark gull that spent the winter at this same lake in Reno, which I
posted to this list a couple of months ago, remained off and on through last
week. It is still unidentified. While that post did not prompt responses to
th
e listserv, I did receive quite a few very interesting replies directly.
There was no consensus, but most felt that it was, at least, a Lesser
Black-backed Gull by today's AOU definition. However, there were a number of
"votes" for one of the Siberian races (heuglini, taimyrensis), which, of
course, are considered to be something other than Larus fuscus by many. It
molted tail feathers (R-4) during the last week it was present. The bird
appears to be gone now, and, unfortunately I was never able to obtain anything
for genetic testing. Perhaps it will return next winter. I've recently posted
additional photos at the end of that bird's web page, so if you have a
lingering interest in this gull,you can see all of the photos at:
http://birdbum3.home.mindspring.com/Dark_Gull_08/Dark_Gull_08.html p.p.s.
Either of the two pages (the new oddball gull or the old dark gull) can also
be reached from the "Recent" tab of my regular web page, address in sig
nature. ***************************************************** * Martin
Meyers * Photo website: http://meyersm.home.mindspring.com * email:
meyersm AT mindspring.com * Truckee, CA
***************************************************** Join or Leave
BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives:
http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
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Subject: Re: Possible Bachman's Sparrow in IL
From: Mike Kirch <sternacaspia(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 8 Apr 2008 9:46am
Hi Greg,
I really think this bird is a Swamp Sparrow. I notice
quite a bit of chestnut red in the wing panel, a good
mark of Swamp. Both species have a well defined
supercilium but Swamp has an ever wider supercilium
with more pronounced lighter gray which this bird
shows, esp. in contrast to the chestnut red cap. Also
notice how the dark post-ocular eye line gets a bit
wider at the end and doesn't join into another color,
i.e. it is gray at the end of it. This matches Swamp
perfectly. Bachman's eyestripe doesn't become
noticably wider at the end and merges in with the dark
color of the mantle. Both birds have somewhat long,
graduated tails and we can't see the full tail of this
bird so this doesn't help but it looks to me like the
tarsus is longish, another reason to think Swamp over
Bachman's. From what I can tell of the one photo the
primary tip projection looks short, not much longer
than the tertials which is a good char. of Swamp.
Bachman's shows a longer primary tip.
The chest looks white but I feel that's due to the
washed out look of the photo in combination with the
sunlight but without this effect it would be mostly
unstreaked and gray. Also notice the thin black malar
stripe outlining the light chin, Bachman's does not
show this at all.
The flanks appear to have a blotch of dark red and
contrast noticably with the lighter sides and lower
belly, there is no such contrast with Bachman's on
it's flanks. I feel this is a good Swamp sparrow.
Good birding,
Mike Kirch
West Bend WI
--- Greg Neise <greg(AT)LPZOO.ORG> wrote:
> Hi Gang,
Bill Rudden has once again posted
> an interesting photo on the Illinois
Birder's
> Forum:
http://www.ilbirds.com/index.php?topic=4493.0
Any
> feedback most
> welcome.
Cheers,
-greg
> neise
Berwyn, IL
>
>
> Join or Leave BIRDWG01:
>
http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
>
> Archives:
> http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
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Subject: Re: And yet another odd gull, Reno, NV
From: Floyd Hayes <floyd_hayes(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 8 Apr 2008 9:58am
Why couldn't it be a Ring-billed Gull with a pigment
abnormality? The pigments (presumably carotenoids)
responsible for yellow coloration in the bill, eyes
and legs appear to be absent, and the mantle and wings
appear to have slightly more melanin pigments than
normal.
Floyd Hayes
Hidden Valley Lake, CA
____________________________________________________________________________________
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Subject: Re: And yet another odd gull, Reno, NV
From: Cliff and Lisa Weisse <CliffandLisa(AT)OCTOBERSETTERS.COM>
Date: 8 Apr 2008 11:14am
Floyd Hayes wrote:
> Why couldn't it be a Ring-billed Gull with a pigment
> abnormality?
>
Wouldn't the dark brown iris and dark mantle (compared to CAGU and RBGU
in the photos) eliminate this possibility? (Also can a RBGU have a
completely white tip on P10?) A pigment abnormality of the bare parts
wouldn't effect the iris and/or mantle would it? I'm thinking L.a.
kamtschatschensis. The blue legs and bill are not unknown in this group
(canus) and Kamchatka averages larger, heavier billed than Mew and and I
think is more likely to have a black subterminal ring on the bill. The
dark mantle, dark iris, and long primary extension are right. White
tips on inner Ps significantly narrower than on secondaries seems
right. The only thing I can see that strikes me as unusual is the lack
of a mirror on P9, although there is a small white spot visible on the
right wing only in one of the photos that looks to be high up on P9.
Cliff
--
Cliff and Lisa Weisse
Island Park, Idaho
cliffandlisa(AT)octobersetters.com
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Subject: Re: And yet another odd gull, Reno, NV
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Greg_Neise?= <greg(AT)LPZOO.ORG>
Date: 8 Apr 2008 12:05pm
I photographed a very similar ring-billed gull in Chicago last winter:
http://www.ilbirds.com/images/2007-12-22-001738.jpg
...however, the back is not as dark as the mystery gull, nor does it have
the big white spot on P10.
Cheers,
-greg neise
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Greg Neise
Staff Photographer
Manager of Web and Graphics Technology
Lincoln Park Zoo
2001 N. Clark St.
Chicago, IL 60614
312-742-2240
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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Subject: Re: And yet another odd gull, Reno, NV
From: greatgrayowl(AT)AOL.COM
Date: 8 Apr 2008 1:46pm
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Hey all:
The bird has too extensive of a dark wingtip for any form of
Mew/Common/Kamchatcka Gull and it is very much like that of Cal Gull.? However,
iin response to my response last night, David Fix politely asked me why the
beast wasn't just a small californicus Cal Gull.? Though that may certainly be
the correct answer, I still think that the bill is too small and the head shape
too rounded for such, BUT I have seen a Cal Gull that was actually just slightly
smaller than some nearby Ring-billed Gulls once (on the Pueblo Res., CO, CBC)
and that I thought was going to be a Mew Gull when I found it.? Ain't gulls
grand?!
Tony Leukering
Brighton, CO
-----Original Message-----
From: Cliff and Lisa Weisse <CliffandLisa(AT)OCTOBERSETTERS.COM>
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Sent: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 12:14 pm
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] And yet another odd gull, Reno, NV
Floyd Hayes wrote:?
> Why couldn't it be a Ring-billed Gull with a pigment?
> abnormality? > Wouldn't the dark brown iris and dark mantle
(compared to CAGU and RBGU in the photos) eliminate this possibility? (Also
can a RBGU have a completely white tip on P10?) A pigment abnormality of the
bare parts wouldn't effect the iris and/or mantle would it? I'm thinking L.a.
kamtschatschensis. The blue legs and bill are not unknown in this group
(canus) and Kamchatka averages larger, heavier billed than Mew and and I think
is more likely to have a black subterminal ring on the bill. The dark
mantle, dark iris, and long primary extension are right. White tips on inner
Ps significantly narrower than on secondaries seems right. The only thing I
can see that strikes me as unusual is the lack of a mirror on P9, although
there is a small white spot visible on the right wing only in one of the
photos that looks to be high up on P9.?
?
Cliff?
?
-- Cliff and Lisa Weisse?
Island Park, Idaho?
cliffandlisa(AT)octobersetters.com?
?
Join or Leave BIRDWG01:
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Subject: La Sagra's Flycatcher
From: Trey Mitchell <trey(AT)Photographwildlife.com>
Date: 8 Apr 2008 3:43pm
This is a multipart message in MIME format.
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
I went to Luck Hammock (Dade County Florida) this morning and found what I
think is a La Sagra's Flycatcher. Initially it was found moving through
bushes fairly low to the ground. I moved closer to try and get a look when
it flew to a tree in the hammock. When it flew I could clearly see there was
little or no yellow on the belly. When it landed I looked through my
binoculars and thought to myself, this is a La Sagra's. The bird was smaller
than a Great Crested next to it and it was a lighter color brown than the
Great Crested. I tried to get some decent photos, but the conditions were
less than good.
The bird never called and once it dropped into the hammock I was unable to
relocate it. I went to the Annex to see what was there and stopped at lucky
on my way out, but no luck then either. I would have stayed longer but had
to get to work....
I plan to return and relocate the bird and hopefully hear it call.
I would appreciate your thoughts
Photos Here and further info:
http://www.photographwildlife.com/images/TASpost/LuckyHammock/April82008LaSa
gra/index.htm
Trey Mitchell - MCP
Miami, Florida
<mailto:Trey(AT)phototgraphwildlife.com> Trey(AT)phototgraphwildlife.com
<http://www.photographwildlife.com> www.photographwildlife.com
Follow efforts to see and log a new bird every day!
<http://www.BirdADay.net> www.BirdADay.net
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Subject: RFI: fulmar molts and ageing
From: Mike Patterson <celata(AT)pacifier.com>
Date: 8 Apr 2008 4:10pm
We seem to be in the midst of a Northern Fulmar die-off this spring.
Big die-offs in November are not at all unusual and during those we
get lots of birds with even primary wear which we assume are hatch-year
(first winter) birds
http://home.pacifier.com/~neawanna/temp/nofu20071113.jpg
and a few which show uneven wear and sequential molt, usually of inner
primaries, which we assume are older.
We have just finished a survey of 1 mile of Del Rey beach, Clatsop, OR.
and found 39 fulmars. This is unusual for April (we expect alcid wrecks)
A very few of the fulmars show even wear but most show significant
differential wear
http://home.pacifier.com/~neawanna/temp/nofu2008040801.jpg
or are missing the outer primaries all together
http://home.pacifier.com/~neawanna/temp/nofu2008040803.jpg
The worn or missing primaries are symmetrical, gone on both wings
http://home.pacifier.com/~neawanna/temp/nofu20071113.jpg
So, the question is: can we say these are second winter or older
birds or can first winter birds get to this condition by early April?
--
Mike Patterson
Astoria, OR
celata(AT)pacifier.com
When bad photos happen to good birds
http://www.surfbirds.com/blogs/mbalame/archives/2008/03/photo20080313.html
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Subject: A curious oriole in Connecticut
From: Mark Szantyr <birddog55(AT)CHARTER.NET>
Date: 8 Apr 2008 9:56pm
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
On 30 March, I photographed an oriole that had been reported as an =
immature male Bullock's in Canaan, northwestern Connecticut. It has bee =
attending a feeder for about two weeks and seemed to arrive on the =
passage of an Alberta Clipper. This bird looks very much like a =
bullock's but seems "off" in terms of the amount of orange in the entire =
plumage and the mixed molt / feather age in the flight feathers. The =
opinion of western observers is about split between a likely hybrid and =
a more orange Bullock's. The pictures are posted at www.surfbirds.com =
on the North American Stopp Press page. I would appreciate any =
comments, especially from birders in the contact zone for these two =
species, about the identifiability of this bird as either pure Bullocks =
or a likely hybrid. Please contact me directly. Thanks.
Mark
Mark S.Szantyr
80 Bicknell Road
Apt. 9
Ashford, CT 06278
USA
Birddog55(AT)Charter.net
860-487-9766
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Subject: Re: And yet another odd gull, Reno, NV
From: Floyd Hayes <floyd_hayes(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 9 Apr 2008 10:21am
In retrospect I think the suggestion of a small
California Gull (probably a female) is the best
explanation. The bird is in adult plumage so something
obviously is amiss with the soft part coloration (it
reminds me of Cattle Egrets I have seen with a dark
bill, lores, eyes and legs). The plumage is a better
fit for California Gull than Ring-billed Gull and for
these two species I think plumage is probably more
reliable than structure. Perhaps it is malnourished,
which might explain both the abnormal soft part
coloration and small size.
Floyd Hayes
Hidden Valley Lake, CA
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Subject: IBWO cruising flight
From: Mike Collins <cinclodes(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 9 Apr 2008 10:27am
In the Pearl River on March 29, I obtained what is
apparently the first footage of an IBWO in cruising
flight. Since the video was obtained from about 70
feet above the ground, there is no question that the
extensive white on the trailing edges of the wings is
on the dorsal surface. It was quite fortunate that
both the bird and its reflection from the water appear
in the video (some of the most interesting frames are
in the reflection). I have not finished analyzing this
footage, but the flap rate varied between about 8.5
and 10 Hz, the white trailing edges appear in many
frames, and the flap style is quite interesting. The
literature describes the flight of an IBWO as duck
like. Although the directness and speed are duck like,
the flaps involve a rowing motion in which the wings
are brought in close to the body during each stroke,
and this appears to be consistent with the flap style
evident in Tanner photos. I have posted a few frames
and a short clip starting with the March 30 update
here...
http://www.fishcrow.com/winter08.html
I have posted a frame from the video that shows that
reflections off the water are relatively dark, and
this is apparently the reason that white doesn't show
up on the underwings. I assumed the bird was a Wood
Duck when it first came into view far down the
channel, but I caught a glimpse of the dorsal stripes
just before it passed directly below.
Mike Collins
Annandale, Virginia
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Subject: Re: IBWO cruising flight
From: Dominic Mitchell <dominic.mitchell(AT)birdwatch.co.uk>
Date: 9 Apr 2008 11:09am
"... apparently the first footage of an IBWO [= Ivory-billed Woodpecker] in
cruising flight".
By virtue of the fact that such postings are permitted on the group, I
assume the poster is not being frivolous. But when you click as directed and
scroll down past cartoons and assorted diary entries to eventually find the
right link (I assume it's the one which takes you to
http://www.fishcrow.com/flyunder29mar08.jpg), the result is fuzzy, obscure
stills lacking in meaningful detail and clarity, and showing a tiny,
bird-shaped silhouette which could be almost anything.
I don't wish to heat up the Ivory-billed debate again, but do expect
something more sensible from a contribution to ID-Frontiers. This isn't
evidence - it's madness. I've seen far more convincing images of the Loch
Ness monster and Elvis on the moon. While I would love the search for this
presumed extinct species to be successful, like every other subscriber to
this group, and while I also admire the enthusiasm and dedication of those
taking part, I do not see the point in presenting this as any kind of
evidence when it clearly is not - all it does is convince sceptics that
there really aren't any woodpeckers left out there after all.
Rgds
--
Dominic Mitchell
Publisher and Editor, Birdwatch
Solo Publishing Ltd
The Chocolate Factory, 5 Clarendon Road
London N22 6XJ, UK
Tel: 020 8881 0550 / Web: www.birdwatch.co.uk
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notice of its status. It is intended solely for the addressee. Any
unauthorised use is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended
recipient please notify the sender immediately and delete the email and any
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and other harmful events, the company gives no warranty that this message
(including any attachments) is free of any virus or other harmful matter,
and accepts no responsibility for any loss or damage resulting from the
recipient receiving, opening or using it.
-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
[mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Mike Collins
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 6:27 PM
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: [BIRDWG01] IBWO cruising flight
In the Pearl River on March 29, I obtained what is apparently the first
footage of an IBWO in cruising flight. Since the video was obtained from
about 70 feet above the ground, there is no question that the extensive
white on the trailing edges of the wings is on the dorsal surface. It was
quite fortunate that both the bird and its reflection from the water appear
in the video (some of the most interesting frames are in the reflection). I
have not finished analyzing this footage, but the flap rate varied between
about 8.5 and 10 Hz, the white trailing edges appear in many frames, and the
flap style is quite interesting. The literature describes the flight of an
IBWO as duck like. Although the directness and speed are duck like, the
flaps involve a rowing motion in which the wings are brought in close to the
body during each stroke, and this appears to be consistent with the flap
style evident in Tanner photos. I have posted a few frames and a short clip
starting with the March 30 update here...
http://www.fishcrow.com/winter08.html
I have posted a frame from the video that shows that reflections off the
water are relatively dark, and this is apparently the reason that white
doesn't show up on the underwings. I assumed the bird was a Wood Duck when
it first came into view far down the channel, but I caught a glimpse of the
dorsal stripes just before it passed directly below.
Mike Collins
Annandale, Virginia
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http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
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Subject: Re: RFI: fulmar molts and ageing
From: Peter Pyle <ppyle(AT)BIRDPOP.ORG>
Date: 9 Apr 2008 11:44am
Hi Mike and all -
The two individuals with close-up shots
http://home.pacifier.com/~neawanna/temp/nofu2008040801.jpg
http://home.pacifier.com/~neawanna/temp/nofu2008040803.jpg
were undergoing active molt of outer primaries and are at least in
their second cycle or third calendar year (ASYs in banding
terminology). First-cycle individuals in their second calendar year
(SYs) do not begin replacing primaries until the PB2 begins, in late
April or later, and this molt would not reach the outer primaries
until July or later. The extreme bleaching to the outer two primaries
of the first individual suggests juvenal feathers on a second-cycle
(TY) bird. The wings of the five birds in the other image are not
clear enough to age them, at least on my monitor.
As you mention, even-wear is a good way to age first-cycle
Procellariiformes. On non-molting birds you can often detect clines
in freshness among primaries (p2 to p10), and secondaries (s1 to s4,
s5 to s8 or so and the tertials back to s8 or so) indicating a
previous molt and at least a second-cycle individual. Of fulmar
carcasses I've examined along the California I see a ratio of about
70% first-cycle and 30% older birds. But this ratio is likely subject
to substantial inter-annual variation. Hope this helps,
Peter Pyle
At 05:13 PM 4/8/2008, Mike Patterson wrote:
>We seem to be in the midst of a Northern Fulmar die-off this spring.
>
>Big die-offs in November are not at all unusual and during those we
>get lots of birds with even primary wear which we assume are hatch-year
>(first winter) birds
>http://home.pacifier.com/~neawanna/temp/nofu20071113.jpg
>and a few which show uneven wear and sequential molt, usually of inner
>primaries, which we assume are older.
>
>We have just finished a survey of 1 mile of Del Rey beach, Clatsop, OR.
>and found 39 fulmars. This is unusual for April (we expect alcid wrecks)
>A very few of the fulmars show even wear but most show significant
>differential wear
>http://home.pacifier.com/~neawanna/temp/nofu2008040801.jpg
>
>or are missing the outer primaries all together
>http://home.pacifier.com/~neawanna/temp/nofu2008040803.jpg
>
>The worn or missing primaries are symmetrical, gone on both wings
>http://home.pacifier.com/~neawanna/temp/nofu20071113.jpg
>
>So, the question is: can we say these are second winter or older
>birds or can first winter birds get to this condition by early April?
>
>--
>Mike Patterson
>Astoria, OR
>celata(AT)pacifier.com
>
>When bad photos happen to good birds
>http://www.surfbirds.com/blogs/mbalame/archives/2008/03/photo20080313.html
>
>
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Subject: Re: IBWO cruising flight
From: Mike Collins <cinclodes(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 9 Apr 2008 11:51am
Thank you for informing us that the official position
of Birdwatch is that it's madness to share information
on a critically endangered and poorly understood
species. If you had looked more carefully you would
have noticed that a video clip is presented that
clearly shows the flap style and flap rate. The video
sequence starts far up the channel and clearly shows
the flap style from different angles, but it's not
possible to post all of it. It's true that individual
frames can be confusing, but it's quite clear in the
full video that the bird has extensive white on the
trailing edges, and this feature persists in many
frames. Hopefully, some of the other participants in
this forum will be sensible enough to study this
footage and try to think of anything other than IBWO
that fits.
Mike Collins
Annandale, Virginia
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Subject: DNA confirmation of bird record?
From: "Allen T. Chartier" <amazilia1(AT)COMCAST.NET>
Date: 9 Apr 2008 11:54am
Posting for a friend who is not a member of this list...
Hello all,
I am posting this question on behalf of Dr. Alec Lindsay of Northern
Michigan University. Dr. Lindsay has been working to identify a
Tyrannus sp. record from Michigan based on DNA collected from a fecal
sample. He would like to know if any other states have had
extralimital records confirmed using DNA data as evidence. If so,
please send any relevant information to: alindsay(AT)nmu.edu.
Thanks,
Adam M. Byrne
byrnea(AT)msu.edu
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Subject: Re: DNA confirmation of bird record?
From: Phil Davis <pdavis(AT)IX.NETCOM.COM>
Date: 9 Apr 2008 12:23pm
Allen, Dr. Lindsay, et al.
I wish we could say "yes" to this question ... we tried. To make a
long story short, there are two Maryland Western Wood-Pewee specimens
in the USNM. The birds were collected at a banding station back in
the 1960s. Many attempts to confirm the species have been tried
(inspection by expert ornithologists, application of the latest
morphometric keys, etc.), but to no avail. So, we tried the DNA route
via the Smithsonian. The following is a summary of their efforts ...
"Basically, one specimen did not work (523922) ...and the [other]
(530823) worked and clustered with the C. sordidulus sequences from
Genbank, but was fairly divergent from them (about 3%). This is
species level divergence and is very puzzling. The C. sordidulus
sequences are from California (San Luis Obispo and Sierra Nevada). It
is possible this is a cryptic species from elsewhere in the range
(e.g., Rocky Mountains)."
So, we are still nowhere with this! A more detailed account of these
pewees is here ...
http://www.mdbirds.org/mddcrc/pdf/rcannual2007.pdf -
Appendix 6, starting on page 29.
Phil
At 14:54 04/09/2008, Allen T. Chartier wrote:
>Posting for a friend who is not a member of this list...
>
>Hello all,
>
>I am posting this question on behalf of Dr. Alec Lindsay of Northern
>Michigan University. Dr. Lindsay has been working to identify a
>Tyrannus sp. record from Michigan based on DNA collected from a
>fecal sample. He would like to know if any other states have had
>extralimital records confirmed using DNA data as evidence. If so,
>please send any relevant information to: alindsay(AT)nmu.edu.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Adam M. Byrne
>byrnea(AT)msu.edu
===================================================
Phil Davis, Secretary
MD/DC Records Committee
2549 Vale Court
Davidsonville, Maryland 21035 USA
301-261-0184
mailto:PDavis(AT)ix.netcom.com
MD/DCRC Web site: http://www.MDBirds.org/mddcrc/rcindex.html
===================================================
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Subject: Re: And yet another odd gull, Reno, NV
From: Kevin McGowan <kjm2(AT)CORNELL.EDU>
Date: 9 Apr 2008 12:27pm
Do you people not regularly see Ring-billed Gulls with dark eyes and bluish
bills and legs? I see them all in time, in virtually every large flock in
winter in central New York. I did not bother to look at the posted gull in
detail, but it looked like dozens of others that I've seen around here.
Kevin
At 01:21 PM 4/9/2008, Floyd Hayes wrote:
>In retrospect I think the suggestion of a small
>California Gull (probably a female) is the best
>explanation. The bird is in adult plumage so something
>obviously is amiss with the soft part coloration (it
>reminds me of Cattle Egrets I have seen with a dark
>bill, lores, eyes and legs). The plumage is a better
>fit for California Gull than Ring-billed Gull and for
>these two species I think plumage is probably more
>reliable than structure. Perhaps it is malnourished,
>which might explain both the abnormal soft part
>coloration and small size.
>
>Floyd Hayes
>Hidden Valley Lake, CA
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
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>
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*****************************************************
Kevin J. McGowan
Co-editor, New York State Breeding Bird Atlas
Cornell Laboratory of Ornithology
159 Sapsucker Woods Road
Ithaca, NY 14850
607/254-2432
fax 607/254-2111
kjm2(AT)cornell.edu
http://birds.cornell.edu/crows/
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Subject: Collins' IBWO claimed image
From: David Fix Jude Power <dfxjcp(AT)HUMBOLDT1.COM>
Date: 9 Apr 2008 3:06pm
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
The image referred to by the (non-point end) of the red arrow in the =
second frame is not that of a bird. It's a tree limb.
David Fix
Arcata, California
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Subject: Re: And yet another odd gull, Reno, NV
From: Christopher Vogel <glaucidium(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 9 Apr 2008 9:06pm
Kevin-
The apellation "you people" comes off as a bit, well,
uncivil to many eyes or ears and this bird looks a bit
odd, and worth looking at more closely by any
account-even if it is just a funny Ring-bill.
I look at many Ring-billed Gulls, and presently have a
very subtle oil painting of one in progress on my
easel. I think it a bit extreme even for the
darker-eyed, colder-billed end of the Rng-bill
continuum.
This bird may well be just a very bluish-billed & dark
eyed Ring-bill, but I'm sure there were pleasanter
ways of expressing the sentiment.
Perhaps a note in the literature regarding aberration
& variation in "soft-part" colouration in Ring-billed
Gulls of the Finger Lakes would be a better
contribution to identification topics?
Just a thought.
Cheers
CJV
Cape May, NJ
birdcapemay.net
--- Kevin McGowan <kjm2(AT)CORNELL.EDU> wrote:
> Do you people not regularly see Ring-billed Gulls
> with dark eyes and bluish
> bills and legs? I see them all in time, in
> virtually every large flock in
> winter in central New York. I did not bother to
> look at the posted gull in
> detail, but it looked like dozens of others that
> I've seen around here.
>
> Kevin
>
>
> At 01:21 PM 4/9/2008, Floyd Hayes wrote:
> >In retrospect I think the suggestion of a small
> >California Gull (probably a female) is the best
> >explanation. The bird is in adult plumage so
> something
> >obviously is amiss with the soft part coloration
> (it
> >reminds me of Cattle Egrets I have seen with a dark
> >bill, lores, eyes and legs). The plumage is a
> better
> >fit for California Gull than Ring-billed Gull and
> for
> >these two species I think plumage is probably more
> >reliable than structure. Perhaps it is
> malnourished,
> >which might explain both the abnormal soft part
> >coloration and small size.
> >
> >Floyd Hayes
> >Hidden Valley Lake, CA
> >
> >__________________________________________________
> >Do You Yahoo!?
> >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> >http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >Join or Leave BIRDWG01:
>
http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
> >
> >Archives:
> http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
>
>
*****************************************************
> Kevin J. McGowan
> Co-editor, New York State Breeding Bird Atlas
> Cornell Laboratory of Ornithology
> 159 Sapsucker Woods Road
> Ithaca, NY 14850
> 607/254-2432
> fax 607/254-2111
> kjm2(AT)cornell.edu
> http://birds.cornell.edu/crows/
>
>
> Join or Leave BIRDWG01:
>
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>
> Archives:
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>
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Subject: Re: IBWO cruising flight
From: Dominic Mitchell <dominic.mitchell(AT)birdwatch.co.uk>
Date: 10 Apr 2008 3:58am
"... other participants in this forum will be sensible enough to study this
footage and try to think of anything other than IBWO that fits"
The way to identify a species which was until recently presumed extinct is
not to presume it is "apparently" an Ivory-billed Woodpecker unless anyone
can come up with a better suggestion; it is to present proper evidence
supporting such a bold claim, and this clearly hasn't been done. The only
response so far was from someone suggesting that a tree may have been
involved, rather than a woodpecker ...
I welcome the sharing of information on this critically endangered and
poorly understood species - see, for example, Dr James Tanner's original
Ivory-billed Woodpecker article and images in Birdwatch ('A forest alive',
Issue 107: 18-24), published before the present interest in the
'rediscovery' of the species. A big difference between our views is
obviously what constitutes 'information'. I'm afraid I see nothing now or in
your previous posts that provides meaningful evidence to support these
claims of Ivory-billed Woodpecker sightings. I've resisted the urge to
respond to previous such messages, but these uncorroborated and unverifiable
reports should not go unchallenged indefinitely - it gives them a
credibility which is not justified.
From the posts I have received off list in the past 24 hours, I am clearly
not alone in my opinions - thanks to all those who took the trouble to email
me.
--
Dominic Mitchell
Publisher and Editor, Birdwatch
Solo Publishing Ltd
The Chocolate Factory, 5 Clarendon Road
London N22 6XJ, UK
Tel: 020 8881 0550 / Web: www.birdwatch.co.uk
Save the Azores Bullfinch! Visit www.justgiving.com/priolo
--
* Please consider the environment before printing emails *
The information contained in this email and any attachments is confidential
and may be legally privileged. If you have received it in error, you are on
notice of its status. It is intended solely for the addressee. Any
unauthorised use is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended
recipient please notify the sender immediately and delete the email and any
attachments. While Solo Publishing protects its systems from virus attacks
and other harmful events, the company gives no warranty that this message
(including any attachments) is free of any virus or other harmful matter,
and accepts no responsibility for any loss or damage resulting from the
recipient receiving, opening or using it.
-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
[mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Mike Collins
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 7:51 PM
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] IBWO cruising flight
Thank you for informing us that the official position of Birdwatch is that
it's madness to share information on a critically endangered and poorly
understood species. If you had looked more carefully you would have noticed
that a video clip is presented that clearly shows the flap style and flap
rate. The video sequence starts far up the channel and clearly shows the
flap style from different angles, but it's not possible to post all of it.
It's true that individual frames can be confusing, but it's quite clear in
the full video that the bird has extensive white on the trailing edges, and
this feature persists in many frames. Hopefully, some of the other
participants in this forum will be sensible enough to study this footage and
try to think of anything other than IBWO that fits.
Mike Collins
Annandale, Virginia
Join or Leave BIRDWG01:
http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
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[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: And yet another odd gull, Reno, NV
From: Kevin McGowan <kjm2(AT)CORNELL.EDU>
Date: 10 Apr 2008 6:24am
Apologies to anyone offended by my post. I meant no disrespect. Crows are
nesting now and I have spent very little time at my computer the last few
weeks, so in my rush to get something posted I did not check my email over
before posting. Sorry. I honestly was surprised that members of the list
seemed unfamiliar with Ring-billed Gulls with a bluish cast to the skin. I
got an email from someone in Ontario who felt as I did, so perhaps this
aberration is peculiar to the population breeding on the eastern Great Lakes?
I have thrown a few photos onto my Picasa web site at
http://picasaweb.google.com/KevinJ.McGowan/RingBilledGulls that illustrate
some of the variation in these characters. As with all gulls that I have
spent time looking at, none of the characters seems to be unique to any one
particular plumage or suite of traits, but rather it seems that any one
thing can pop up with other combinations of plumage, eye color, etc.
No time to annotate the photos, but each has the appropriate data in the
name of the photo. (If you pretend to save the photo you can read the title.)
Cheers,
Kevin
At 12:06 AM 4/10/2008, Christopher Vogel wrote:
>Kevin-
>
>The apellation "you people" comes off as a bit, well,
>uncivil to many eyes or ears and this bird looks a bit
>odd, and worth looking at more closely by any
>account-even if it is just a funny Ring-bill.
>
>I look at many Ring-billed Gulls, and presently have a
>very subtle oil painting of one in progress on my
>easel. I think it a bit extreme even for the
>darker-eyed, colder-billed end of the Rng-bill
>continuum.
>
>This bird may well be just a very bluish-billed & dark
>eyed Ring-bill, but I'm sure there were pleasanter
>ways of expressing the sentiment.
>
>Perhaps a note in the literature regarding aberration
>& variation in "soft-part" colouration in Ring-billed
>Gulls of the Finger Lakes would be a better
>contribution to identification topics?
>
>Just a thought.
>
>Cheers
>CJV
>Cape May, NJ
>birdcapemay.net
>
>--- Kevin McGowan <kjm2(AT)CORNELL.EDU> wrote:
>
> > Do you people not regularly see Ring-billed Gulls
> > with dark eyes and bluish
> > bills and legs? I see them all in time, in
> > virtually every large flock in
> > winter in central New York. I did not bother to
> > look at the posted gull in
> > detail, but it looked like dozens of others that
> > I've seen around here.
> >
> > Kevin
> >
> >
> > At 01:21 PM 4/9/2008, Floyd Hayes wrote:
> > >In retrospect I think the suggestion of a small
> > >California Gull (probably a female) is the best
> > >explanation. The bird is in adult plumage so
> > something
> > >obviously is amiss with the soft part coloration
> > (it
> > >reminds me of Cattle Egrets I have seen with a dark
> > >bill, lores, eyes and legs). The plumage is a
> > better
> > >fit for California Gull than Ring-billed Gull and
> > for
> > >these two species I think plumage is probably more
> > >reliable than structure. Perhaps it is
> > malnourished,
> > >which might explain both the abnormal soft part
> > >coloration and small size.
> > >
> > >Floyd Hayes
> > >Hidden Valley Lake, CA
> > >
> > >__________________________________________________
> > >Do You Yahoo!?
> > >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> > protection around
> > >http://mail.yahoo.com
> > >
> > >
> > >Join or Leave BIRDWG01:
> >
>http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
> > >
> > >Archives:
> > http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
> >
> >
>*****************************************************
> > Kevin J. McGowan
> > Co-editor, New York State Breeding Bird Atlas
> > Cornell Laboratory of Ornithology
> > 159 Sapsucker Woods Road
> > Ithaca, NY 14850
> > 607/254-2432
> > fax 607/254-2111
> > kjm2(AT)cornell.edu
> > http://birds.cornell.edu/crows/
> >
> >
> > Join or Leave BIRDWG01:
> >
>http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
> >
> > Archives:
> > http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
> >
*****************************************************
Kevin J. McGowan
Co-editor, New York State Breeding Bird Atlas
Cornell Laboratory of Ornithology
159 Sapsucker Woods Road
Ithaca, NY 14850
607/254-2432
fax 607/254-2111
kjm2(AT)cornell.edu
http://birds.cornell.edu/crows/
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[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: IBWO cruising flight
From: Mike Collins <cinclodes(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 10 Apr 2008 6:55am
A series of images of the amazing flying tree branch
are now posted here...
http://www.fishcrow.com/winter08.html
Mike Collins
Annandale, Virginia
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[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: And yet another odd gull, Reno, NV
From: Joseph Morlan <jmorlan(AT)GMAIL.COM>
Date: 10 Apr 2008 10:19am
Kevin,
Thank you for posting that interesting series of Ring-billed Gull photos
showing variation in eye, bill and leg color. As you say, these variations
may occur more often in your area than elsewhere. I have never knowingly
seen a dark-eyed adult Ring-billed Gull here in the San Francisco area, but
I may have overlooked the occasional variant.
As I scrolled through your photos, my reaction was that the dark-eyed and
"bluish" billed birds were otherwise typical Ring-bills which have retained
some signs of immaturity into adult-hood or near adult-hood. This would
not be unexpected. E.g. I am aware of some known-age full adult Western
Gulls banded on the Farallons which still retained some dark markings on
their bills when they were well into their teens. It would not surprise me
to learn that similar variants (Dwight called these "backward" individuals)
might occur in the Ring-billed Gull.
However, returning to the original Nevada bird, I have difficulty
consolidating it with your variant Ring-bills. The mantle seems too dark,
the mirrors too large and there seems to be a hint of reddish or orange
coloration at the gonys.
I agree with the suggestion that this bird probably has some California
Gull genes in its ancestry. A hybrid Ring-billed X California Gull is a
reasonable possibility but after spending more time than I should worrying
about hybridization in large gulls, I think it would be presumptuous to say
with any confidence that it is such a hybrid.
As with most odd gulls, there are lots of opinions and somewhere out there
is the truth.
On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 09:23:56 -0400, Kevin McGowan <kjm2(AT)CORNELL.EDU> wrote:
>Apologies to anyone offended by my post. I meant no disrespect. Crows are
>nesting now and I have spent very little time at my computer the last few
>weeks, so in my rush to get something posted I did not check my email over
>before posting. Sorry. I honestly was surprised that members of the list
>seemed unfamiliar with Ring-billed Gulls with a bluish cast to the skin. I
>got an email from someone in Ontario who felt as I did, so perhaps this
>aberration is peculiar to the population breeding on the eastern Great Lakes?
>
>I have thrown a few photos onto my Picasa web site at
>http://picasaweb.google.com/KevinJ.McGowan/RingBilledGulls that illustrate
>some of the variation in these characters. As with all gulls that I have
>spent time looking at, none of the characters seems to be unique to any one
>particular plumage or suite of traits, but rather it seems that any one
>thing can pop up with other combinations of plumage, eye color, etc.
>
>No time to annotate the photos, but each has the appropriate data in the
>name of the photo. (If you pretend to save the photo you can read the title.)
>
>Cheers,
>
>Kevin
>
>
>At 12:06 AM 4/10/2008, Christopher Vogel wrote:
>>Kevin-
>>
>>The apellation "you people" comes off as a bit, well,
>>uncivil to many eyes or ears and this bird looks a bit
>>odd, and worth looking at more closely by any
>>account-even if it is just a funny Ring-bill.
>>
>>I look at many Ring-billed Gulls, and presently have a
>>very subtle oil painting of one in progress on my
>>easel. I think it a bit extreme even for the
>>darker-eyed, colder-billed end of the Rng-bill
>>continuum.
>>
>>This bird may well be just a very bluish-billed & dark
>>eyed Ring-bill, but I'm sure there were pleasanter
>>ways of expressing the sentiment.
>>
>>Perhaps a note in the literature regarding aberration
>>& variation in "soft-part" colouration in Ring-billed
>>Gulls of the Finger Lakes would be a better
>>contribution to identification topics?
>>
>>Just a thought.
>>
>>Cheers
>>CJV
>>Cape May, NJ
>>birdcapemay.net
>>
>>--- Kevin McGowan <kjm2(AT)CORNELL.EDU> wrote:
>>
>> > Do you people not regularly see Ring-billed Gulls
>> > with dark eyes and bluish
>> > bills and legs? I see them all in time, in
>> > virtually every large flock in
>> > winter in central New York. I did not bother to
>> > look at the posted gull in
>> > detail, but it looked like dozens of others that
>> > I've seen around here.
>> >
>> > Kevin
>> >
>> >
>> > At 01:21 PM 4/9/2008, Floyd Hayes wrote:
>> > >In retrospect I think the suggestion of a small
>> > >California Gull (probably a female) is the best
>> > >explanation. The bird is in adult plumage so
>> > something
>> > >obviously is amiss with the soft part coloration
>> > (it
>> > >reminds me of Cattle Egrets I have seen with a dark
>> > >bill, lores, eyes and legs). The plumage is a
>> > better
>> > >fit for California Gull than Ring-billed Gull and
>> > for
>> > >these two species I think plumage is probably more
>> > >reliable than structure. Perhaps it is
>> > malnourished,
>> > >which might explain both the abnormal soft part
>> > >coloration and small size.
>> > >
>> > >Floyd Hayes
>> > >Hidden Valley Lake, CA
>> > >
>> > >__________________________________________________
>> > >Do You Yahoo!?
>> > >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
>> > protection around
>> > >http://mail.yahoo.com
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >Join or Leave BIRDWG01:
>> >
>>http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
>> > >
>> > >Archives:
>> > http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
>> >
>> >
>>*****************************************************
>> > Kevin J. McGowan
>> > Co-editor, New York State Breeding Bird Atlas
>> > Cornell Laboratory of Ornithology
>> > 159 Sapsucker Woods Road
>> > Ithaca, NY 14850
>> > 607/254-2432
>> > fax 607/254-2111
>> > kjm2(AT)cornell.edu
>> > http://birds.cornell.edu/crows/
>> >
>> >
>> > Join or Leave BIRDWG01:
>> >
>>http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
>> >
>> > Archives:
>> > http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
>> >
>
>*****************************************************
>Kevin J. McGowan
>Co-editor, New York State Breeding Bird Atlas
>Cornell Laboratory of Ornithology
>159 Sapsucker Woods Road
>Ithaca, NY 14850
>607/254-2432
>fax 607/254-2111
>kjm2(AT)cornell.edu
>http://birds.cornell.edu/crows/
>
>
>Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
>
>Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
--
Joseph Morlan, Pacifica, CA 94044 jmorlan (at) ccsf.edu
Birding Classes start Apr 1 in SF http://fog.ccsf.edu/~jmorlan/
California Bird Records Committee http://www.wfo-cbrc.org/cbrc/
Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: IBWO cruising flight
From: Mike Patterson <celata(AT)pacifier.com>
Date: 10 Apr 2008 11:03am
I know what I'm about to say is controversial and I expect to have
heaps of scorn and ridicule piled upon me, but if I'm right this
is far too important to keep silent about.
Please compare http://www.fishcrow.com/flyunder29mar08.jpg
especially the lower photo with
http://tinyurl.com/4mddqz
Mind you, I'm not suggesting that the species in my example photo is
the same as the fishcrow photo, that would be too incredible, but
surely a find of this magnitude justifies shifting time, effort and
away from species we already know exist....
--
Mike Patterson
Astoria, OR
celata(AT)pacifier.com
When bad photos happen to good birds
http://www.surfbirds.com/blogs/mbalame/archives/2008/03/photo20080313.html
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[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: A Brain Twister
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Greg_Neise?= <greg(AT)LPZOO.ORG>
Date: 10 Apr 2008 12:59pm
A member of the Illinois Birder's Forum has posted a picture of a bird at
her feeder today. It is a partial albino that really doesn't look like
anything, while looking familiar at the same time.
Could be a grackle...or who knows. Take a peek:
http://www.ilbirds.com/index.php?topic=4673.0
Cheers,
-greg neise
Berwyn, IL
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[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: And yet another odd gull, Reno, NV
From: Alvaro Jaramillo <chucao(AT)COASTSIDE.NET>
Date: 10 Apr 2008 9:18pm
Folks
Good point by Kevin, Ring-bills can show weird bluish casts to bills and
legs sometimes. However, the bird in the photos is not a Ring-billed. It is
either part or whole California Gull. If you look closely there is even some
reddish on the gonys. The issue is whether one can adequately make an
argument that this is an aberrant runt California, or potentially a hybrid.
I wondered about hybrid at first, but now wonder if it is not a weirdo
California. The wing pattern does not suggest hybrid with Ring-billed, but
instead it looks like California, the back color also good for California,
probably less so for hybrid. .....but then who knows?
Regards
Alvaro
Alvaro Jaramillo
chucao(AT)coastside.net
Half Moon Bay, California
Field Guides - Birding Tours Worldwide
www.fieldguides.com
-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
[mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Kevin McGowan
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 6:24 AM
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] And yet another odd gull, Reno, NV
Apologies to anyone offended by my post. I meant no disrespect. Crows are
nesting now and I have spent very little time at my computer the last few
weeks, so in my rush to get something posted I did not check my email over
before posting. Sorry. I honestly was surprised that members of the list
seemed unfamiliar with Ring-billed Gulls with a bluish cast to the skin. I
got an email from someone in Ontario who felt as I did, so perhaps this
aberration is peculiar to the population breeding on the eastern Great
Lakes?
I have thrown a few photos onto my Picasa web site at
http://picasaweb.google.com/KevinJ.McGowan/RingBilledGulls that illustrate
some of the variation in these characters. As with all gulls that I have
spent time looking at, none of the characters seems to be unique to any one
particular plumage or suite of traits, but rather it seems that any one
thing can pop up with other combinations of plumage, eye color, etc.
No time to annotate the photos, but each has the appropriate data in the
name of the photo. (If you pretend to save the photo you can read the
title.)
Cheers,
Kevin
At 12:06 AM 4/10/2008, Christopher Vogel wrote:
>Kevin-
>
>The apellation "you people" comes off as a bit, well,
>uncivil to many eyes or ears and this bird looks a bit
>odd, and worth looking at more closely by any
>account-even if it is just a funny Ring-bill.
>
>I look at many Ring-billed Gulls, and presently have a
>very subtle oil painting of one in progress on my
>easel. I think it a bit extreme even for the
>darker-eyed, colder-billed end of the Rng-bill
>continuum.
>
>This bird may well be just a very bluish-billed & dark
>eyed Ring-bill, but I'm sure there were pleasanter
>ways of expressing the sentiment.
>
>Perhaps a note in the literature regarding aberration
>& variation in "soft-part" colouration in Ring-billed
>Gulls of the Finger Lakes would be a better
>contribution to identification topics?
>
>Just a thought.
>
>Cheers
>CJV
>Cape May, NJ
>birdcapemay.net
>
>--- Kevin McGowan <kjm2(AT)CORNELL.EDU> wrote:
>
> > Do you people not regularly see Ring-billed Gulls
> > with dark eyes and bluish
> > bills and legs? I see them all in time, in
> > virtually every large flock in
> > winter in central New York. I did not bother to
> > look at the posted gull in
> > detail, but it looked like dozens of others that
> > I've seen around here.
> >
> > Kevin
> >
> >
> > At 01:21 PM 4/9/2008, Floyd Hayes wrote:
> > >In retrospect I think the suggestion of a small
> > >California Gull (probably a female) is the best
> > >explanation. The bird is in adult plumage so
> > something
> > >obviously is amiss with the soft part coloration
> > (it
> > >reminds me of Cattle Egrets I have seen with a dark
> > >bill, lores, eyes and legs). The plumage is a
> > better
> > >fit for California Gull than Ring-billed Gull and
> > for
> > >these two species I think plumage is probably more
> > >reliable than structure. Perhaps it is
> > malnourished,
> > >which might explain both the abnormal soft part
> > >coloration and small size.
> > >
> > >Floyd Hayes
> > >Hidden Valley Lake, CA
> > >
> > >__________________________________________________
> > >Do You Yahoo!?
> > >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> > protection around
> > >http://mail.yahoo.com
> > >
> > >
> > >Join or Leave BIRDWG01:
> >
>http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
> > >
> > >Archives:
> > http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
> >
> >
>*****************************************************
> > Kevin J. McGowan
> > Co-editor, New York State Breeding Bird Atlas
> > Cornell Laboratory of Ornithology
> > 159 Sapsucker Woods Road
> > Ithaca, NY 14850
> > 607/254-2432
> > fax 607/254-2111
> > kjm2(AT)cornell.edu
> > http://birds.cornell.edu/crows/
> >
> >
> > Join or Leave BIRDWG01:
> >
>http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
> >
> > Archives:
> > http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
> >
*****************************************************
Kevin J. McGowan
Co-editor, New York State Breeding Bird Atlas
Cornell Laboratory of Ornithology
159 Sapsucker Woods Road
Ithaca, NY 14850
607/254-2432
fax 607/254-2111
kjm2(AT)cornell.edu
http://birds.cornell.edu/crows/
Join or Leave BIRDWG01:
http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
No virus found in this incoming message.
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12:23 PM
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[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: And yet another odd gull, Reno, NV
From: Paul Conover <zoiseaux(AT)cox.net>
Date: 10 Apr 2008 9:53pm
I've seen a few adult Herring Gulls with similar coloration. In every
case it was an injured or sick bird, very ratty. In one case it was a
one-(blue)-legged bird with fishing line wrapped around the stump. The legs
were blue, not just a sickly gray. I assumed that poor health or nutrition
contributed to the tint.
Paul Conover
Lafayette, LA
> Folks
>
> Good point by Kevin, Ring-bills can show weird bluish casts to bills and
> legs sometimes. However, the bird in the photos is not a Ring-billed. It
> is
> either part or whole California Gull. If you look closely there is even
> some
> reddish on the gonys. The issue is whether one can adequately make an
> argument that this is an aberrant runt California, or potentially a
> hybrid.
> I wondered about hybrid at first, but now wonder if it is not a weirdo
> California. The wing pattern does not suggest hybrid with Ring-billed, but
> instead it looks like California, the back color also good for California,
> probably less so for hybrid. .....but then who knows?
>
> Regards
>
> Alvaro
>
> Alvaro Jaramillo
> chucao(AT)coastside.net
> Half Moon Bay, California
>
> Field Guides - Birding Tours Worldwide
> www.fieldguides.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
> [mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Kevin McGowan
> Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 6:24 AM
> To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] And yet another odd gull, Reno, NV
>
> Apologies to anyone offended by my post. I meant no disrespect. Crows
> are
> nesting now and I have spent very little time at my computer the last few
> weeks, so in my rush to get something posted I did not check my email over
> before posting. Sorry. I honestly was surprised that members of the list
> seemed unfamiliar with Ring-billed Gulls with a bluish cast to the skin.
> I
> got an email from someone in Ontario who felt as I did, so perhaps this
> aberration is peculiar to the population breeding on the eastern Great
> Lakes?
>
Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
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[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Oaxaca trip photos posted.
From: Jerry Oldenettel <Borealowl(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 11 Apr 2008 4:42am
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
I have posted about 220 images from a late March trip to Oaxaca to my flickr
photo site.There are also field notes and daylists on my home page at
http://hometown.aol.com/borealowl/ (with links to the photo site) look toward
the
bottom of the page under the Oaxaca link.
Jerry R. Oldenettel
Socorro, NM
**************
Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel
Guides.
(http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)
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